Secret In The Dirt - Golf's Greatest Social Network

JASON RICHARDSON wrote:


Hitting off the deck requires a level to down angle of attack to get the ball to fly ...a) you will hit more on the bottom of the face and b) you increase the spin loft ....both assisting the ball to "lift". Looks like you've got it covered

Never try off the deck with current driver, but thought if ever there was ever a shaft to use for that, low percentage shot it would be the Nunchuk... shorter, no droop. The driver head I will use is 400cc, so that should also help.

Got my Nak NP1, 13 deg in a 'deal', but its too strong and I think will go 16 deg(4 w) with Nunchuk, or put the Nunchuk in my 19 deg Nak hybrid.

Gary,
I have been watching JH's (Atomic Golf here and atomicgolf1 on youtube) optimisation of his driver. I wasn't clear watching the last video if you felt the key to optimising the shaft is finding the perfect MOI or have you found a bbgm that you think is key.

If you were to make the perfect demo driver for the nunchuk I would guess the following:
43.5 - 44 inches
head weighted to approx. 205 gms.
I assume that will give you a pretty narrow range of MOI possibilities. Do you think there is a specific range for the nunchuk that is optimum for most people, or close to optimum?

I have a clubfitter where I am who is an excellent clubfitter and uses MOI matching. He doesn't believe in the theory behind the nunchuk but he built the 983K on the nunchuk I am using and is willing to work with me to optimize it.

driver off the deck is very dependent on driver head design rather than the shaft used. i had a fairly shallow faced 460cc driver fairly lofted and cg back and bottom to help with lifting and it worked great given conditions were right ie suitable lie to hit from and fairway that can support lots of roll. now i have deep faced head, less lofted cg more forward and up, less volume and the face has more vertical bulge than shallow head had so that all makes it nearly impossible to pull off that shot even in decent conditions and believe me i was always comfortable with the shot before so i did try it with new driver few times just for kicks, doesnt work for me, plain and simple. otherwise you just hit down on it, just like Gary said, really same like hitting your fw. if conditions are good and head design and specs allows for it its nothing special in terms of technique or skill.

Darryl..
It would be standard selling practice to tell you that, yes, this is the greatest shaft ever made for hitting drivers off the deck....but it isn't and it doesn't wash your car or walk your mutt either!
As far as i know, this shaft has the lowest spin rate of any shaft ever made. Spin is critical to ball flight. I/ we have done exhaustive testing with a lot of top end amateurs, and some tour professionals, to find the optimum loft angle for this driver and none could flight the ball at 7 degrees, 7.5 degrees and only occasionally at 8 - 8.5 degrees (true loft). Some succeeded admirably at 10 degrees but all agreed that 10.5 degrees was probably the ideal.
If you are going to hit downwards on the ball you will de-loft the clubface, to some degree. You will also alter the angle of collision and the more angular the collision, the lower the transfer of energy. Further to that, the steeper the descent to the ball, the more the ball is initially driven downwards creating friction between the bottom of the ball and the turf, potentially further lowering spin rate.
If I recommend 15 degrees as the least face loft for either fairway woods or hybrids and , in fact, suggest 16 degrees as optimum for 3wds, why wouldn't I offer 13-14 degrees as optimum, capitalizing on the presumptions that stronger lofts hit the ball further? Because this shaft doesn't work that way, simple as that!
Sure, you might be able to pull off a reasonable shot off the deck with it in a driver head but will it go any further than a well struck and properly flighted 16 degree fw? Highly unlikely and certainly not repeatedly.

Gerry

Point taken.

Economics was driving my inquiry. If Nunchuk driver was good alternative on good fairway lie, then maybe I wouldnt need a new 3 w. I 'll find a good 16 deg head.

Gary, Aussie Golf, brought up bottom of bore to ground as an important installation consideration.
The La Jolla 400, 10 deg has a 1.75 inch BBG. When I drill bottom out, stuff, do you recommend a different BBG? eg 1.5 inch rather than 1.75 inch?
Is Nunchuk design based upon a specific BBG ?

Bart O'Shea wrote:


Bart,

The BBG is most important as the shaft can play differently depending on that measurement. eg if Head A has a standard bore of 1" and Head B has a high bore of 2" then you would have to tip trim the shaft 1" for Head B to play the same as Head A (hope that makes sense ). The MOI is an individual spec as is swingweight although I prefer MOI as a better indicator - it is still based on the weight and feel that gives you the most consistent impact i.e. once you get the club balanced and get a consistent on centre impact then measure the MOI of the club and see what that number is for you.

As far as length goes somewhere between 43" and 44 1/2" seems to be the range that people are comfortable with but common sense must still prevail when fitting and headweight, swingweight, MOI and feel are all relative to the final playing length ...its still all about impact, impact and better impact for each individual. Nothing is "standard" ... the recommended loft of 10.5* is for an average swing speed with a level angle of attack ....see the charts I posted on optimal launch conditions and you will see that lots of things come into play to achieve your magic numbers.

darryl..
You DO NOT bore right through and out the other side of the sole plate.At the bottom of the hosel bore there is a small collar guarding the entry into the head chamber itself. The manufacturer doesn't run the drill right through the full bore, that little collar is left so that the tip of the shaft ends up against it, the tip cannot run right through into the head chamber. You can leave that there, if you wish, but it will make stuffing the wadding into the head an absolute nightmare. I merely open that out so that I can more easily fill the head. I leave a tiny ridge so that the shaft tip cannot go right through but the wadding can pass through more easily. If, by some chance, the shaft tip can fit through the new bore, I simply put the ferrule on the shaft with a dab of bond and measure off the exact length of the bore before it was extended and make that the bottom end of the ferrule. I then bond the shaft into the bore.

Gerry

Gerry

From previous I thought you were boring the hosel bottom the same diameter as hosel, 0.335 inch, which I thought would leave no stop for shaft, which is easily resolved by securing ferrule as you say.
or I was thinking to build up tape sufficient to stop epoxy from coming out, because I assume head with epoxy, has to be set grip side down, otherwise epoxy will run into the head?

Since it is possible to remove the stop in hosel and extend shaft further into head, will doing so make club play stiffer? and is that an advantage in performance with the Nunchuk? My understanding is that the smaller the bottom of bore to ground dimension, the stiffer the club will be. I wasnt intending to make the head a bore thru type, although I still have some plugs from the old Big Bertha days.


l

I am certainly glad we helped you. I was the most frustrated human being on earth until I met Gerry. He has devoted a large portion of his lifetime figuring out this human motion called the golf swing. He has been kind enough to spend many hours teaching me. Yet, as complicated as it is he has made it so simple anyone can understand. Now, that 's a rare talent !
I think Gerry would suggest you use a small grip. No mushy large one. You want to feel the shaft in your hands . Makes sense to me. In fact, I use Ladies grips on some of my clubs and I wear a size 15 ring. Yes, I went through a period using huge oversized grips thinking I would not hook it as much . Didn't know any better, but Nicklaus suggested it ! BS.
Another Gerry tip for you-- the right hand must always be inside the left hand before and at impact. Gerry says the art of getting the right hand inside the left hand at impact in the golf swing is the most difficult movement in all sports. I have no reason to disagree. This means the shaft and clubhead coming down would always be inside the arc of the arms/hands. ( hit the Mute button on your TV when Johnny Miller says , " he got the club stuck behind him ." ) Get it stuck behind you as far as you can and I quote Gerry , " turn and pull and turn and pull until you can't any longer "!

I hope we have helped you. I understand how difficult it is to get the answers you are looking for. They are just NOT available in the places we were looking. I will help anybody who appreciates Gerry's work . It needs to be shared !

Lane

Lane,

I think that I understand. Staying 'inside all the way' , means right hand is inside left hand thru impact.

Does that mean that Ben Hogan's supinated left wrist into impact was result of keeping right hand inside of the left hand? The left wrist was forced up and out (supinated) by the right hand moving inside of the left hand.




Johnny Miller has a video where he talks about rolling the right hand to square up the club face and it can result in a left wrist that is supinated; but that is totally different from what you and Gerry are saying... turn and pull the butt from 8 to 1 o clock. I can do that in slow motion and entire left side moves/gets out of the way to accomodate that movement. If Gerry's correct and its the most difficult movement in sports, I will work on it.

I get as much or more satisfaction hitting 'shots' than a good golf score.

You and Gerry are adding to that satisfaction. Thank you.

darryl

i'm a bit late to the discussion on this. but for what it's worth, i am currently using the nunchuk shaft in a Tour Exotics XCG-3 4W 16.5* (43"). It's fantastic. I switched from a 15* 3W (with Fuji Speeder 757) because I was looking to be able to get it up in the air a little better.

I hit it plenty far enough, so gaining length was not an issue for me. The result of all this was faster ball speed, much less dispersion on misses, and added length (8-12 yds!!) I almost (seriously close) hit it as far if not further than my driver, also with a nunchuk shaft in it.

hope this helps.

tom

darryl

a guy named john novosel wrote a book on this titled "Tour Tempo" - amazon link (www.amazon.com/Tour-Tempo-Secret-Finally...308724803&sr=8-1)

I found it to not only be very interesting and intriguing, but the included CD of sound cues has really helped my a lot to really hone in on and practice what i have determined my tempo to be.

just a thought.

Darryl
I have never encountered a problem with bond dripping into the head chamber by opening the bore bottom. Even if a tiny drop did it would fall into the compacted wadding and adhere to that.
Yes, if the tip gets closer to the ground it will stiffen the shaft but the shaft is already so stiff that it doesn't matter anyway, especially at 43.5" to 44".

Gerry

Gerry, do you think there are heads that will and heads that wont work with the Nunchuk, or can you make any head work with some mucking around?

This is my review of the Nunchuk shaft. I hit it very well. It's long and straight "as advertised". It didn't fly as low as I had heard, it didn't feel as heavy as I had heard, and it didn't feel too stiff at all.

I tried to attach my video but I'm not sure why it didn't post. To post a video in the forum I just paste it in the link, right? (Sorry, still new to this. )

Hit my new nunchuk today. The proof is in the pudding and pudding tastes like ambrosia. I won't wax on but check it out. Thanks Gerry!

Michael....#14188

Thanks, that says it all! Ambrosia is the food and drink of the Greek Gods and demi-gods, as I recall. In ancient mythology that's about as big as it can get

Thanks
Gerry

Christo;
It isn't intended to fly particularly low, in normal playing conditions. Because it puts so much less spin on the ball the need is to get the ball up quickly into the ideal flight path where it will drop into a very flat flight plane, the need being to have the flight path high enough so that the more limited spin can hold the ball suspended while it's own momentum continues to push it forward. The ball will then descend to the ground on a much shallower inclination, with little spin remaining, and bounce forward and roll.
When you want to hit the ball lower simply go down that shaft and sweep the ball away with heavy, solid arms, all lower body and legs and no hands.

Gerry Hogan

Brendan Wheatley wrote:


Brendan...
There is an old saying about making silk purses out of sow's ears..no matter how good the shaft may be, nothing can compensate for a badly made or designed clubhead. The NUNCHUK can make a bad head better but it cannot make it good or great, not by my standards anyway.
Personally I'm prejudiced against overly large heads, for valid mechanical reasons. I do not accept the hype and the bs put out by the clubhead manufacturers either. That having been said...I have had great successes with the Titleist D910 D2 and D3 heads on this shaft but with my proteges doing the hitting, as I can no longer swing a golf club. They do not have the same misgivings about melon headed drivers that I do.
I have no affinity towards any golf manufacturer and would rather leave your question to be answered by other members of this forum/ thread as I wish to avoid any hint of prejudice. I would, personally, stay away from heads that are too long, front to back, and stick more with the classic shapes, as shown in the Titleists above. I, personally, would be looking at a head weight of about 205 @ a length of 44" which should return a swingweight of about D3 +/- i s/w point.
There is no need to "pure" the shaft, it's irrelevant to this shaft. I would settle on 10.5 degrees of loft. I would not be adding any form of additional counter-balance as the shaft is already counter-balanced by design. I would be looking at a grip weight of 50 grams +2/ -1 gram.
What I would stress is quality. Be prepared to pay a bit more for a head that is ideal for the purpose. Would you buy a Ferrari and then run it on junk fuel/

Good luck with it

Gerry Hogan

Gerry - Did you see the video review I did for your shaft? It's on my video page and here's the link to the vimeo page. Tell me what you think when you have time.

www.vimeo.com/25452420

I got my nunchuck today and put it in a R9 9.5 with the adjustment high as possible ,45" , close to10.5, with a 16 gram and extra lead weight on bottom . When I took it to the range with a15 mph tail wind , after a few swings I was able to find the center pretty often and was crushing it. But the ball flight was totally different then I thought, seemed high enough but the balls would drop out and seem to fall straight down with no roll. Could this be because of the limited flight range balls or the strong following wind! Or should I go less loft? Thanks Jack

Christo Garcia wrote:


Nice video. I would like to see your impact with this shaft and compare it to your avitar pic. Should be considerably different.

fellow nunchuk dirters -

i've been trying to follow this nunchuk thread as best i can. at 35+ pgs, long it's been a bit of a daunting task. very much appreciate having mr hogan in the mix, not often one gets to seek the advice of the creator when asking about a product.

i have a nunchuk in my driver and followed the advice of 44" down from 44.5" and it's working great. so much so that i put it into my 4W (43"). it works great, but it has made me over think this into the following questions:

1 - given the suggestion to shorten the driver to 44” should I in turn shorten my 4W? it may be "if it's not broke ..."

2 - I have some questions that pertain to my daughter (15 yrs, 5’ 6”, 90+mph driver club head speed, 8.9 hdcp, current driver length 44". I was led to believe from the club fitter that introduced me to the nunchuk and advertising that one shaft fits all. However in her swinging mine, it’s too stiff. I suppose this could be due to overall length (before i cut it down). However, we have the same 4W head, and when she hits mine (also presumably too long), she likes the feel and hits it further than hers. So my question is, what’s a good length for her and can the shaft get too short that it negates the effectiveness?

3 - What length would you recommend for 3&4 hybrids? And at a certain length “shortness”, don’t you in effect get close to an “iron” shaft? Can this get too short to make it too stiff and unhitable?

i realize that i have put some of these questions to a couple of you in PM, but i wanted to throw this out to the group to see.

i thank any of you in advance for you thoughts, ideas, and advice.