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From Hogans magical hands to his mysterious grip, how did Hogan build both into one of golfs' most sought out "Secret"

To all those that reply,"If you don't mind", articulation, speculation and imagination are advised.

1lovegolf

b]Mark Allred wrote:[/b]


If I must admit, Mr. Hogans swing has been a pleasure to watch. I always view his 1953 video before I view anything else on this site.

I have, from the beginning, viewed Hogans swing from outside looking in , and have progressed to viewing it from the inside out.

From top to bottom left to right and anything in between, there are clues.

The way he sets his feet, the knee bend, regripping of the club, forearm rotation and of course the head and line of sight adjustment.

These are all observations, along with many others, that we see. However, it is what we don't see that makes up a large aspect of Hogans magic.

Hogans shoes, the filled pockets of his pants, beltline, along with steel wool and hangers, not to mention sand in the butt of the club. The list goes on.

What training methods did he use....etc.

It is all there, but with the next swing method or driver that promises more yardage, it is slowly being lost, overlooked, ignored or undecipherable. If you can’t explain it, you can’t teach it.

Personally, I prefer the old method, study the greats and build my own swing and own it.

That is why, 1lovegolf.

Mark whatcan I say im am impressed I need to be learning from you.You are looking inside the circle now keep it up. its easy to see it when you look for it.

It is pretty well documented that Mr. Hogan is credited for "inventing" practice. I've watched video clips where he speaks of totally enjoying it, not treating it as a necessary evil at all.

Special clubs, shoes, pants? We can really only speculate unless record shows Hogan explaining why.

In my own opinion, I think talk of the "secret" has resulted in so much hocus-pocus being thrown around. I'll maintain there is no one "secret" Mr. Hogan could have whispered to someone on the range, resulting in their instant mastery of the swing. Golf just isn't that way...

My belief is all the years of practice led him to fiddle with his clubs until they provided the performance he liked. The extra spike? Pretty sure Mr. Maves says it best that his connection to the ground bordered on the sublime. Since he liked to tinker with his equipment, his shoes were likely not off-limits to experimentation. His pockets? Haha, who knows. Well, only he knows, sadly...

The 1953 video that Mark speaks of often is truly amazing to watch. I enjoy viewing it with some regularity, also. Any "real" ball-striker is a pleasure to watch, but we all know Mr. Hogan can rest in peace at the top of that list!

Leecom wrote:


Lee, since you might already know this, I will throw this out there.

Since this would fall under speculation and I have never heard anything about it, I would take it like chewing gum. Chew on it, get what flavor(info) you want, and then stick it under the table. Later, chew on it a little more and you may find a little more flavor(info)is left or believable.

It is my opinion after watching video, you know the one, it appears that Mr Hogans clubs heels were not the only heel shaved.

If you watch a batter step into the batters box, what is the first thing he does? A sprinter uses one.

This modification and Hogans movements indicate a latteral push(linear torque), rather than rotational torque into the dirt.

I will let you chew on that and maybe re-chew. It is flavorable if not informational.

Speculation is the birth of fact. 1lovegolf

If you all don't mind, I will go it alone today in this thread.

First, it is with the deepest respect for Hogan and what he did for the game, that I share with you what his swing means to me and how I percieve his intent and motion to be.

Mr. Hogan stated that he wished he had three right hands, and in his 1953 video, in my profile, he motions his right hand three times in succession.

Puzzling and early speculation were close, until today.

While practicing in, "The Yard", with one hand to feel what I believe to be Mr, Hogans motion, I discovered what appeared to be two revalations that unlock the mystery of his earlier hand motion and statement about wishing for three right hands.

First revelation, when trying to swing one handed, as my earlier swing model prescribed, I realized that the most efficient way to move the club was to implement the three, and only three movements the wrist can make.

1)Up (superior)direction

2)Down (inferior)direction

3) Left/ Right

Mr. Hogan need one hand to move the club up, one hand for down, and the last to move the club left or forward towards the target at impact.

The upward motion of the wrist provides torque down on the shaft from the top and up on the shaft from the bottom.

This process is reversed, since the palm is now pointing up. You can figure the movements out.

Finally at or near impact the wrist must provide support towards incomming inertia of the ball and provide follow through torque for added speed or inertia and shot execution with fingure pressure with ulna and radius rotation.

Second revelation, these three basic movements are all you need to effectively control the clubhead and shaft angles. And with club modifications, it is possible to perform the golf swing......well, thats another experiment and thread.

However, when implementing this into a two handed golf swing we, in my opinion and stated theories, divide the right hand functions between the now 10 fingers.

When, how and where you decide to use this information, refer to the racketball swing as your swing motion guide and work your way up to the full two handed golf swing.

This is just my opinion and how I am building my own swing and owning it. Good Luck.


Thank you, Mr. hogan for still inspiring and sharing your Magic. That is why 1lovegolf

Hey Mark,
I've peiced a few clips together to continue this discussion.
www.dirters.com/index.php?option=com_com...id=831&Itemid=33
Since I've been working on my swing over the last few month's I've been searching for something to give me the real "Hogan feeling".

The "Hogan Feeling" is present in the clips I've put together (watching them in slow motion is an added benefit)
To me it's the ability he had in being able to get the club head back with a rod straight left arm, breaking the wrist without any real "visual" Physical Effort. Then return the club through the ball with about as much effort as smoking a cigarette.

The reason I picked these particular short swings is I beleive they represent his full swing. The right hand coming through almost effortlessly is the "Hogan Feeling" I'm really looking for. Recently I've been working on getting my left hip through as the start to the downswing, this really put's the right hand in the correct position. The ball flight and feeling off the face are unmistakable.

Parks

parks wrote:


Thanks Parks for your inrerest.

As per our previous conversations, Hogans vidio 1953 has been on my wall and I view it everyday. It is my source of inspiration and tutorial to my searh for owning my own swing.

We have not spoken in a while and alot has transpired with my research and experiments. They have revealed Hogans secret angle or visual line of sight at impact. I am now able to see it from the inside out.

Not nirvana, but for lack of a better term, enlightening, at least. I believe his smotion is in my grasp and execution experiments have already begun. The results have supported earlier assumptions and theories concernimg the ,"Swing" and "Hogans One Handed Swing", theories and blogs.

I am gratefull for every day that I am able to share and recieve invaluable support and informational input from people like you that have a passion for what it means to enjoy golf for whatever reasons we all have.

I am still happy to share any observations that I have , and more than that , I am always listening when you post, and I appreciate that.

Thanks Mark

Hey Mark,

I really enjoy your insights and enthusiasm for Hogan swing theory. I love reading anything realted to the man including any and all theories people have.

I'll share with you my thoughts on the 1953 "hand motion" clip. By the way, this is my absolute favorite Hogan footage- and I watch it several times a week. To me, it appears that Hogan is describing his weight transfer in the swing. Notice the 1st motion he makes is a slight rock to his left- which I believe signals his trigger compression to the left. Then he rocks his hand all the way right to show his weight transfers to the right during the backswing. Next he rocks his hand to the left, which I believe represents his fall to the left at the top of the backswing. This is followed by another rock to the right which I think represents that Hogan feels the weight falls back to the right during the downswing prior to impact. He now rocks the hand back left to show the weight flows left thru impact, and then rocks more left to signal that the weight goes completely onto his left side after impact.

I have paused the video several times to sync up my thoughts with his hand movements and they definitely match. It's funny, because part of what I've described is viewed by some as a reverse pivot. Like the saying goes, there's a fine line between insanity and genius. Hogan was genius. I personally don't think Hogan shifted right on the backswing and left on the downswing. I think he was constantly challenging his balance. By doing so, he ends up being perfectly balanced. I think this is why his swing flows so beautifully. Imperfect balance requires the body to react and catch itself to retain balance. Like I said, a true genius.

HoganQuest wrote:


Welcome Hoganquest,

I am gratefull for your comment and excited to see that you share a passion for Hogans magic.

Your assestment of Hogans movement and articulation is promising.

To view Hogans magic from the outside is like viewing a Mona Lisa. What inspiration we percieve and how one might implement these motions is an awsome journey.

I look forward to your insight and posts here at the dirt.

You will find that this site is full of Hogan enthusiests as well as very knowledgable golf info and insight. Good luck and don't forget your shovel, Ha Ha.

1lovegolf

Posting in this thread is like talking to myself, and that is OK with me.

Like most legends in golf,their swings are unmistakable and yet very few people can implement most of the motions into their own swings.

This is probably for the better. However, Mr. Hogans swing was very much visible in George Knudsons motion, and quite effective also.

Mr.Knudson and Mr, Hogan both applied linear torque with the right foot to maintain lag and increase clubhead speed. Furthermore Mr. Knudson knew Hogans secret with the foot wear modifications and I am not talking about the xtra spike, in my opinion.

The actions or motions of the foot, with the exception of the exterior view, go unnoticed. These secrets are easy to hide.

This brings me to the point of my videos, regarding myself and hitting with flip flops on.If you aren't visually aware of what the motions and movements your feet make to balance your swing and provide torque, you might miss the modification that didn't go unnoticed to Hogan.

We all know that Hogan paid attention to all the little things and turned them into an advantage. We can only speculate, and this is just what I see when viewing Hogans swing.

Thanks 1lovegolf

Hey Mark,
Sam Snead always promoted bare foot practice, he said (Paraphrasing)that the fear of breaking your toes, forced you to swing within yourself and prevent the dreaded overswing.

You would fit in very will in OZ, they weld thong's onto the Aussie's feet at birth

parks wrote:


Need more practice time, swing sometimes takes a step back. Back to diggin.



1lovegolf, still.

Hi Mark,
can you estimate what the difference in pressure is between lead and following hand during your back and downswing.

The reason I ask is I was getting pi$$ed off with myself, because I couldn't stop my right hand from firing at the top of the backswing. This was stopping me from having any chance of a weightless pause at the top. I could only really float the club by intentionally stopping dead, waiting and then starting down. But this wasn't a true float, I was using Tempo counting 1..2,3 and started to get some float as you may have seen in the last clip I posted.

The problem was I couldn't float and get into my left side.

I had a brain wave, I was working on why I have been getting so stuck on the right side and then it came to me.

Stand facing any solid object that you can grab underneath with both hands, using an underhand grip like a deadlift pull up so you can feel the weight of the object (just like your going to tip it over)

When you can feel the force through your whole body and equally through your left and right sides, try to lift your right foot off the floor. (BE CAREFUL)

You can't do it (unless you stop lifting, move the body weight over to the left leg and lift again), the body lock's it's support unit's inplace. It prevents you injuring yourself.

I found I felt like this at the top of my backswing, can't release any weight from the right side. So for me it's the same in golf, if I'm trying to apply force from top of the backswing and I'm using my right arm/hand/shoulder unit. I fold slightly at the waist to create that spine "lock" over my right hand side.


This prevents me from taking any weight off the right leg, my hips can only turn left and not laterally.

I saw Bobby Jone's video on Youtube years ago, he explains that his right hand hardly touches the grip and he hit's with his left. I tried it but it didn't work as I was still firing from the top with the Right.

So I tried hitting purely with the left from backswing through to downswing, After a few varied attempts I found that if I keep the right hand completely out, I can float and go lateral left as much as I want.

I've found that using this Left only swing allows me to add in the right hand when I want to and with as much or as little force as I want to.

Here's another favourite clip of mine of Hogan, it took me ages to work out how he hit's the ball without flipping his wrist's over.

Parks

www.dirters.com/index.php?option=com_com...id=839&Itemid=33

To answer the question in a more general way, the answer is evolution. What do Hogan and Norman have in common? They both had an edge to them which probably made the practice range a very peaceful addictive place to be. Norman being highly autistic and Hogan living with the ghost of childhood past; they both found peace in the process and their method was the same in this respect; let's hit ten thousand balls on Monday and then on Tuesday let's hit ten thousand more in a way that doesn't hurt the body in the same way as Monday. Years of natural selection so to speak (the moves that didn't abuse the body as much survived and the ones that hurt the most were tossed) ensued and what evolved was something very, very efficient.

Parks,

I was reading your post again about floating, just like my gum chewing analogy, took the gum from under the table to chew on it and see if there was any usefull flavor or info.

Well the info was there all along. I too video taped my swing and noticed the early right hand movement, no weightless transition.

If you remember Hogans transition at the top, his transition was smooth. I took another look and broke it down,

Your Bobby Jones info interpetation and implementation has merit in the context of transition.

Thanks Parks. 1lovegolf

Hey Mark,
for me this shows it all,
www.dirters.com/index.php?option=com_com...id=843&Itemid=33
Parks

parks wrote:


Great example Parks.

Anchor, Balanace, Transfer, Weightlessness, Transition, Delivery, Release. 1lovegolf
The weightlessness is seen by the release of the butt of the shaft by the left hand to allow the clubhead weight to go vertical and balace by the right hand.



Finished product from, "The Yard", The "Stepax Swing". Needs testing and polishing. Most motions will fade visually as the core processes and takes over control of motion and balance. thanks, 1lovegolf.

Mark Allred wrote:




Swing model. Had this swing since 1991, and never knew it could be of use in the golf swing. That is why, 1lovegolf

Mark Allred wrote:


First came the ax. This was one of my swing models. Took awhile to transfer into a viable golf motion. Compare and share.



All comments welcomed. Thanks Mark. 1lovegolf




Back in , "The Yard".Just trying out the feel of the dynamics of the footwork and timing the, "accelerator Move" in the grip. 1lovegolf 5 wood.

I would like to go back to Hogans swing motion and make a statement as to what actually swings and why this is the only important motion.

There are two facts that must be acknowledged to define a swing.

First we must choose the object that is to be used in the swinging motion. I believe it to be the club head.

Fact one. A swing must consist of inertia away from the intended target and inertia towards the target, (ball).

Fact two. The swing must rotate in the above two directions on an axis. This axis provides a fulcrum that we can accelerate the clubhead.

From these simple facts we can accomplish our goal of building a reapeatable swing motion.

It is my belief that Hogan knew that to reach a destination you must define(2), things,(1) where you are at and.(2) where you need to go. Mr. Hogan , in my personal opinion, percieved those to be impact position and weightlessness, and not in that order.

This is one of Hogans other secrets in regards to how he was able to execute a true swinging motion.

This is exclusively my own opinion as to how I view motion and Mr. Hogans intent.

Thanks, 1lovegolf.

Now that Mr,Hogan figured out the basic facts in regards to the swing, he was ready to begin the search for a path for swing the clubhead.

As Hogan did, I have choosen a swing model and compiled all the data and feel that represents a swing motion from this swing model . I personally choose the ax swing, and for two reasons,(1) I have had this swing for 20 years , and (2)it is easy to transition every aspect of its motion into a golf swing.

Simply put, as I have stated before in different threads and videos, I swing the heaviest part of the ax , as well as the club,(the heel or hozel)directly at the target or impact position.

This is the heart and soul of my swing, everything revolves around the swinging of the hozel and heel area.

The "Step Ax' Sing with, "Accelerator Move" and follow through,from the "Yard".



I have even modified my woods to imitate the irons and the feel, the weight is now at the hozel area.

The "Stepax Swing", using the swing model and swing concept, which I introduced as my finished product, has yielded the final piece of the puzzle to complete the picture.

Mr Hogan knew the in order to increase clubhead speed with his magical hands, he must demand complete control of the weight(heel) with what I have termed in my threads and videoes is the"Accelerator Move". Once you feel the weight in your swing lag, it is fairly easy to accelerate the clubhead with the fingers to direct the weight and transfer energy to the ball.

By the way, I believe Mr, Hogan, as I have, discovered that the shortest distance between two points is a straifgt line, however, it is not the fastest. I'll let you figure that out.

In summation. Starting point,(weightlessness) finish point, (impact). Swing the weight(hozel). Swing path,( think cyclone),(not any kind of plane),Hogans swing path is his waggle or hand motion in the 1953 video. Now do everything in balance.

This is my exclusive opinion as to how I personally view Hogans motions and intent. In search for Mr. Hogans swing motion I have built and own my swing. I owe everything to his swing and how I believe he built and owned his swing.

My grip can be viewed on the threads. 10finger, hands only touching at(left forefinger), and (right pinky finger). Exact replica of a baseball swing.

Mr. Hogans swing was massive preseting and designed for dynamic movements throughout his swing, in my opinion.

PS Keep the thumb pads off the shaft and pointing away from each other.

This is my final story and I'm stikin to to it. Mark , 1lovegolf (video comming soon)

Mark ..... you sound like a reincarnation of Homer Kelley ...

MamboMan wrote:


I have heard of him, but not familiar with his work. I do know one thing, I would never spend that much effort to decifer the swing.

I spent just enough to own my own, 2 months. I was fortunate to have a swing model that I have used since 1990. It just so happens that I can translate it into a golf swing.


1lovegolf

Good Luck Mark, there is much more to golf than just a pretty swing. Enjoy!