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[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=152&Itemid=3"]Building and owning your Swing[/url] Group Forum: Since we all had to start somewhere. I would like to start a group, where all can share their humle beginnings and the path that has lead them to where they are now.

From the first shot to the one that got you hooked. From frustration to triumph. From student to teacher, we all have one thing in common, we all love golf. Personally,1lovegolf.

So with humility, grace,and perciverance, we all have traveled the path to understanding our swing with hopes of owning it.

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TOPIC: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret

Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15461

  • 1lovegolf24
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While on vacation, I called an old friend and as usual the subject turned to golf and of course, then to Hogan.

I will not divulge my friends name nor the specifics of the secret, until he is willing to come out with a clear and precice understanding of his find, as well as it's implications and mutiple applications.

However, I will say this for now, If you were to boil the entire swing motion down to the smallest and yet most critical substance or motion, in which the entire swing is built , controlled and mastered from, you will understand why Hogan said"It's easy to see, if I only told you where to look".

I must also say this, if I spent an entire lifetime looking for it, I would never be able to see it, yet as Hogan said, "If I told you where to look, ", you would be able to see it. , litrally.

Good Luck and Keep Diggin.

Mark, 1lovegolf24

i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee488/micethrice/Hogan-wtf.gif

i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee488/micethrice/Hogan-wtf.gif

i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee488/micethrice/Hogan-wtf.gif









PShttp://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee488/micethrice/Hogan-wtf.gif
Last Edit: 2 years 1 month ago by 1lovegolf24.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15467

  • jim ruhnke
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Well, I still don't think there is any secret. Let's take a look at a couple of things we all KNOW are true. On the Snead vs. Hogan DVD (Shell's Wonderful World of Golf) in the section on golf tips they ask Hogan "What is the most important move in a golf swing?" Hogan proceeds to demonstrate starting down with the hips. In 5 Lessons, he states that (I'm summarizing) if you set up as he suggests and take the club back on plane...if you start down with the hips you are a captive of your own good swing. He said, you cannot move your hips too fast and, in fact, the faster you move them the better. If there is a secret that is it. However, when it's plastered all over the book for the whole world to see, I don't see how there is any "secret" to it. I have made this move myself and everything the guy said is true. You can really turn on the speed and at the same time keep perfect balance. The club is going so fast it is completely out of your control. KaBLAMMMMO!!
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15469

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yeah I would have said the hips too. they are the power source in most sports, a well known concept.

you said your friend claims to see 'it' and know that it is 'the' secret but is unwilling to come out with a 'clear' understanding, yet he can explain it to you. tell us what convinced you then that he is right.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15477

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phily wrote:
yeah I would have said the hips too. they are the power source in most sports, a well known concept.

you said your friend claims to see 'it' and know that it is 'the' secret but is unwilling to come out with a 'clear' understanding, yet he can explain it to you. tell us what convinced you then that he is right.

Phily, I have long been facinated, captivated and often mesmorized by Hogan's swing motion.

Why, I ask myself? What makes it so appealing to watch, I have never seen it live, I cannot really see the ball flight, hear the strike etc.

I believe the reason is that Hogan does, " one ", thing that has progressed through

UI ...... Unconscience incompetence

CI.......Conscience Incompetence

CC.... Conscience , Competence

UC....Unconscience competence

Everything is balance and revolves around ,"IT" and it's motion.

I call it the ultimate secret because , not only did Hogan not reveal or even talk about it, no one, and I mean no one in golf has ever mentioned it, yet it is the single, natural componet that controls all swing motions. Furthermore, I have noticed something in Hogan's swing, that only he does, yet never figured it out or saw it.

It was brought to my attentiion, while discussing Hogan, and the story is quite interesting how it was brought to his attention.

I will say, once again, even though I know where to look , when I swing, I cannot see it.

As far as my friend and his willingness to come out with the secret, outright, it was the final missing piece to his understanding of the swing motion, one piece that has elevated him to an UC, Unconscience Competence , swing motion. His willingness to share with me this secret, was something I may not deserve, being so new to golf, but he saw something. This secret will save years of searching and anyone can build their swing from it. it is the ultimate understanding of motion, IMO.

I wish I could say more, but it must be presented better than I am capable of for now.

@jim ruhnke, while the hips ,as Hogan mentions , starts the swing, there is actually one motion that preceeds it. The entire swing motion follows it.

Mark, 1lovegolf24

PS, I feel I have just moved from UI to CI, Good Luck and Keep Diggin
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by 1lovegolf24. Reason: sp added info
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15478

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I guess what I'm asking is why post about it if you're not going to tell us?
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15479

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So nothing to do with gravity, which is a basic part of any swinging motion (pick up a playground swing and drop it, gravity does the rest).

Nothing to do with laying the club off to start the downswing, as in:



Nothing to do with sliding, or squatting, left:

I have heard that the secret to golf is in the left hand (for the righty) but have never heard the actual secret. The source has since disappeared and I cannot contact said source.

This is intriguing.
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Tony.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15481

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I'll tell you what the 'secret' is, it's 4 easy payments of $29.95. ;)


I've watched the Tom Bertrand layoff video many times. As simple & straight forward as it is, each time I go back to it I see or understand something new. (great grouping of videos btw).
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by phily.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15482

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phily wrote:
I'll tell you what the 'secret' is, it's 4 easy payments of $29.95. ;)

Order within the next 10 minutes and we'll double your secret for the same low price! lol :lol:

Not bashing, just funny.

I'm very much interested in what his friend has discovered. Always looking to improve and learn from others. If someone says they've found something, I'm listening.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15485

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@jim ruhnke, while the hips ,as Hogan mentions , starts the swing, there is actually one motion that preceeds it. The entire swing motion follows it.

MARK.... I meant at the start of the downswing...not "the swing". Are you talking about something before the backswing? The only thing before is the waggle. Hogan did make the point that he considered the waggle to be of major importance....Sort of used it as a small rehersal for his full swing. Said if he waggled well he knew he would hit a very good shot before he even started to swing. Thanks.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15486

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@Toney, it has everything to do with gravity. The hardest thing to do is balance a golf motion or any swing motion for that matter.

Anytime we move weight, we must first balance it, in order to move it efficiently. I believe Hogan did this.

He figured out what controls or balances his swing motion. He realized one thing must be stabalized as the cenral axis that the motion swings around. For example, in a pendulum swing motion, one end swings, one area of the shaft is the axis and the butt end moves opposit of the weight being swung.

Now that is just the mechanics of the shaft and it's swing motion, but now we observe these elements in the bodies motion. The body or core of the swing motion leads this swing motion by executing the motion , which in turn balances the swing.

Simply put, the head executes this motion in balance and the body follows it's lead.The motion of the head has one central place that the head , and it's swing motion, revolve around.

To see this, watch Hogans Head motion. What never moves? From what I have been told, I believe this is the ultimate secret. IMO

Mark, 1lovegolf24
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by 1lovegolf24. Reason: sp
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15488

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jim ruhnke wrote:
...if you start down with the hips you are a captive of your own good swing. He said, you cannot move your hips too fast and, in fact, the faster you move them the better.

Thanks Jim, I needed to be reminded of this and kept it in the back of my head while at the range today with excellent results. (sometimes I get lazy but if you really clear those hips you're along for the ride).


Tony, I have to say if the secret is that wrist cup / layoff move it is just like magic when you get it all synch'ed up.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15489

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jim ruhnke wrote:
@jim ruhnke, while the hips ,as Hogan mentions , starts the swing, there is actually one motion that preceeds it. The entire swing motion follows it.

MARK.... I meant at the start of the downswing...not "the swing". Are you talking about something before the backswing? The only thing before is the waggle. Hogan did make the point that he considered the waggle to be of major importance....Sort of used it as a small rehersal for his full swing. Said if he waggled well he knew he would hit a very good shot before he even started to swing. Thanks.

This is a good question. Are we discussing the downswing, or the entire swing process, from start to finish. I personally believe if there is a secret, it would have to be dealing with the downswing. With soo many different swings and backswings on tour (upright, flat, outside take away, inside take away, square clubface to the line, shut clubface, open clubface, etc....) there are too many variables and no one "correct" way to swing the club back.

In the downswing, most would agree it is necessary to hit the ball from an inside path, but if you look at videos of different pros, you'll see some with an inside path to the ball (where the butt of the club points to the inside of the ball) or a down the line path (where the butt of the club points infront of the ball, down the target line).

Butt at the inside of the ball:

Down the line:
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15490

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1lovegolf24 wrote:
@Toney, it has everything to do with gravity. The hardest thing to do is balance a golf motion or any swing motion for that matter.

Anytime we move weight, we must first balance it, in order to move it efficiently. I believe Hogan did this.

He figured out what controls or balances his swing motion. He realized one thing must be stabalized as the cenral axis that the motion swings around. For example, in a pendulum swing motion, one end swings, one area of the shaft is the axis and the butt end moves opposit of the weight being swung.

Now that is just the mechanics of the shaft and it's swing motion, but now we observe these elements in the bodies motion. The body or core of the swing motion leads this swing motion by executing the motion , which in turn balances the swing.

Simply put, the head executes this motion in balance and the body follows it's lead.The motion of the head has one central place that the head , and it's swing motion, revolve around.

To see this, watch Hogans Head motion. What never moves? From what I have been told, I believe this is the ultimate secret. IMO

Mark, 1lovegolf24

I'll take a look and see what I find/see.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15491

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Tony , imaging, or take a string and put it in your mouth with a small amount of weight on it. Now swing the weight at the end using your head motion. Close your eyes to better feel what moves and what doesn't in order to balance the motion. Now gradually allow the body to replicate the motion and you may fing the head is just a liitle ahead of the body.

Now you may even feel the sensation that the body is swinging the head, doesn't matter which you feel, what I was told is, between both motions, ask yourself, what never moves, where is the center or part of the body that balances everything?

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15492

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The nose perhaps??

There is a slight turn of the head to the right at the start of the backswing, and it remains there until the followthrough, but it doesn't look like the nose ever moves.

Nickalus did the same I believe, abt 20second mark you can see the head turn to the right:
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15494

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Hogan used to practice with a cigarette in his mouth. I've seen some juniors being told to hold a tee in their mouths to practice with. (probably to shut them up and concentrate on practicing).
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15495

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Tony wrote:


The nose perhaps??

There is a slight turn of the head to the right at the start of the backswing, and it remains there until the followthrough, but it doesn't look like the nose ever moves.

Nickalus did the same I believe, abt 20second mark you can see the head turn to the right:


Tony, the nose moves, as does the entire head, of Hogan and Nicklaus, especially in the McElroy video also, however all of them keep one thing stable. It may be moved, but not during a swing motion, if you get what I mean.

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15496

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The neck/spine? If this is what you're talking about, the C7 has been discussed many times as being the swing circle center (Mike Austin). And would certainly not be something that has never been discussed in golf before.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15497

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phily wrote:
Hogan used to practice with a cigarette in his mouth. I've seen some juniors being told to hold a tee in their mouths to practice with. (probably to shut them up and concentrate on practicing).

Phily, while discussing Mr. Hogan with my friend, and wondering how Mr. Hogan put this secret to use, the cigarette was definately something that helped him monitor his motion or swing path. He mentions something about getting the impression of swinging and looking over a barrel.

Not sure about that part though.

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15498

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I was thinking about Annika Sorenstam as an example. So is the head movement / lack of it really the 'secret' if others swing exceptionally well letting it move?
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15499

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phily wrote:
Hogan used to practice with a cigarette in his mouth....
1lovegolf24 wrote:
Phily, while discussing Mr. Hogan with my friend, and wondering how Mr. Hogan put this secret to use, the cigarette was definately something that helped him monitor his motion or swing path. He mentions something about getting the impression of swinging and looking over a barrel.
Maybe there's an axis tilt to the head that you keep? As long as that is held it doesn't matter if you move around that axis or hold it (?)
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15500

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Tony wrote:
The neck/spine? If this is what you're talking about, the C7 has been discussed many times as being the swing circle center (Mike Austin). And would certainly not be something that has never been discussed in golf before.


Tony, the c7 info, by Mr. Austin and the c6 have been discussed by Mr.. Comeaux here at the dirt, however, IMO both those motions are controlled by the motion of the head.

And as far as swing thoughts, this IMO is, or should be the center of all swing motions.If you master this, the swinging arounf the c6, or C7, will be a mere natural occurence of the swing motion, with all due respects to Mr. Austin and Mr. Comeaux.

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15501

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phily wrote:
I was thinking about Annika Sorenstam as an example. So is the head movement / lack of it really the 'secret' if others swing exceptionally well letting it move?


It is my understanding and feeling that the head can move anywhere you want, as long as during rotation of the shoulders or transfer of energy, it must be stable. If you drop the hips, sit down, backshift, back swing , follow through etc. no problem, but when it comes time to release the energy, it will lead and balance the strike.

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15502

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Maybe there's an axis tilt to the head that you keep? As long as that is held it doesn't matter if you move around that axis or hold it (?)

This would be my though as well, if the head is alowed to move, but one thing stays still and isn't allowed to move, it would be the spine angle, or angle the head is tilted.

If you put a string on the end of anything at a certain tilt or angle and get it swinging back and forth, once you get the momentum going the only thing that will interfere with that is a changing of the tilt or angle of that pivot point.

An example would be the playground swing. the chains are attached to a horizontal beam/pole/rod and as long as the swing is pushed at a perpendicular or 90 degree angle to the beam, the swing stays in pendulum motion. However, if once freely swinging, you were to change the angle of the beam from horizontal to angled or whatever, the swing would go out of control, no longer in pendulum motion. Same if you applied a sideways push instead of a push perpendicular to the horizontal beam, one of the chains would go slack.
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Tony.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 8 months ago #15504

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Al Barkow "I had my own experience with Hogan in regard to his putting people on about his technique. When the Hogan Tour was getting started—that was the first title of what is now the Nationwide Tour—Hogan agreed to a long interview, portions of which would be used to promote the new circuit. I was designated to ask him the questions. Afterwards, over lunch, I got a little feisty and told Hogan that I had figured out how he got the club into that backswing position of his. He said he’d give me the secret. Well now! Ben Hogan is going to give me the secret!
Some time passes, lunch is over, and Hogan and I are walking down the hallway at his hangout club, Shady Oaks. I still hadn’t gotten the secret, and asked him when it was coming. At that he steered me through the swinging doors of the kitchen, saying he didn’t want anyone else to hear. Fine. “Take your stance,” he commanded. I did. “Now turn your head to the right,” he said. I did. I waited for the next phase. It wasn’t coming. I asked if that was it, he said yes, and I said it was a gimmick. He said it wasn’t. The lesson was over. Hogan had given me a piece of swing business that went back to Bobby Jones, at least. Some secret!"

http://albarkow.com

which is exactly what people looking for the secret deserve...
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