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[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=152&Itemid=3"]Building and owning your Swing[/url] Group Forum: Since we all had to start somewhere. I would like to start a group, where all can share their humle beginnings and the path that has lead them to where they are now.

From the first shot to the one that got you hooked. From frustration to triumph. From student to teacher, we all have one thing in common, we all love golf. Personally,1lovegolf.

So with humility, grace,and perciverance, we all have traveled the path to understanding our swing with hopes of owning it.

This group and threads will be dedicated to stories about where we were, where we are and where we want to go. There is no ending, only the journey and those we wish to share it with.

TOPIC: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26465

  • 1lovegolf24
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Festus wrote:
But.......if'in I cipher correctly now Mark, dare' only be 3 ways to make an 8: two natural and one unnatural.

Just sayin' is all.

Gotta go, Ruthie is hungry. :)

Festus,

I do not know what any of those three methods are, but I am awaiting. In the meantime, here is another video from Broudy8.



Mark, 1lovegolf24

PS" A lift a drop, a push , a pull and a constant change of direction" "Figure "8" Motion, IMO.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26470

  • Chris Peterich
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What about hogans real power move? Getting that right elbow to touch just below belly button, with with hands lagging behind.

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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26471

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Money here, this was one of his secrets

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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26472

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We get this, we r all scratch or better. Game over
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26478

  • Grady Dickens
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Chris,

The instructor in the first clip isn't even demonstrating "the move" correctly, and Rory isn't there either. Note that Rory has humped the goat a bit...his right hip has thrust out toward the ball and his right elbow is stuck behind.

This is why he hooked it 80 yards off the 10th tee at The Masters last year. The idea of a "thrust" can be quite destructive, at least if the "thrust" is directed in the wrong direction. Better to drop into the legs and hold and resist as you then use their push into the ground to pivot against. The biggest reason folks get steep is they don't creat a clear inside pathway for the arms.
Last Edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Grady Dickens.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26479

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Grady Dickens wrote:
Chris,

The instructor in the first clip isn't even demonstrating "the move" correctly, and Rory isn't there either. Note that Rory has humped the goat a bit...his right hip has thrust out toward the ball and his right elbow is stuck behind.

This is why he hooked it 80 yards off the 10th tee at The Masters last year. The idea of a "thrust" can be quite destructive, at least if the "thrust" is directed in the wrong direction. Better to drop into the legs and hold and resist as you then use their push into the ground to pivot against. The biggest reason folks get steep is they don't creat a clear inside pathway for the arms.


Hi Grady,

Are these your thoughts or what you have learned? I am not agreeing or disagreeing, but rather trying to establish or understand how one perceives this path to the ball.

For instance, what must travel this path and in what direction in relation to the ball and body?

Also , what factors might be considered?

I have spent a great deal of time trying to answers these questions in my mind and in my execution, but find it very difficult to find this illusive path and position , as well as its' understanding.

I will say this, it seems Hogan had it figured out.

Thanks

Mark, 1lovegolf24
Last Edit: 2 years 10 months ago by 1lovegolf24.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26480

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Steve P wrote:
I don't know what Mr Hogan did. However, I am pretty sure it involved much more than two simple swing thoughts.
Neither side of his body is automatic IMO until trained.
I am no expert on Mr Hogan or the golf swing.
I do however realize that maybe a champion golfer who worked his entire life building his game would tell you theres more to it than focusing on the left side.
No offense just opinion...

That skepticism about the DS being a very simple action is exactly what Hogan has foreseen...
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26483

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@ Mark 1love:

The ends justify the means. You need to stop being so preoccupied with the path to the ball and start looking on the other side of the rainbow for your answers. Are there things to consider pre-impact? Sure there is. But where we are going has far more impact- no pun intended.

Look at it this way. You are standing on the edge of a canyon that is only 1foot wide but with a 5 mile drop. Would, or could you, do a standing jump over it? Sure you could, and probably wouldn't even give safety or survival a second thought. Move the distance out to 2 feet and probably still no problem. At some point, say maybe 4 feet for example, your hard wired system, which you can't access, will determine that where you want go cannot be accomplished given the limits of what your body can produce. But while starting at 1 foot and progressing outward to the point where instinct says...."oh no you don't Mark"... each attempt is met with an increase in knee flex. If I were to ask you PRECISELY how much your knee flex increased on each attempt at a further distance, you could make an educated guess. However, your subconscious knew exactly how much knee flex to incorporate by seeing the other side of the canyon and making some very interesting calculations based on that primary level of awareness of the objective and what we bring to the table.

So in many ways how we get to the other side of the canyon ( ball ) detemines what we do on this side of the canyon.

As for the figure 8's: have to find that out for yourself. May I suggest a paper and pencil to start with. :)
Last Edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Festus.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26485

  • Chris Peterich
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Grady

Wouldnt you like to play like rory? Humping the goat wouldn't be that bad
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26487

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Rory is miles ahead of where Ben Hogan was age for age... clearly... but on the topic "Hogan's ultimate forum" I'm guessing that Brady doesn't want to swing like Rory...and go back about 40 something weeks to a Sunday afternoon at Augusta...I reckon Rory didn't want to swing like Rory either....

That hook is built into his swing DNA... Rory knows it...Westwood knows it and has commented on it :

"His relationship with McIlroy has appeared strained for some time. After last year’s Masters, amid an outpouring of public sympathy for the Northern Irishman’s final-round unravelling at Augusta, Westwood offered the less than gracious view: “I’ve played with Rory and he does snap-hook under pressure.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/8851227/L...hanghai-Masters.html
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26488

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We'd all like to play like Rory, but Rory doesn't swing like Hogan. There's a lot of throw and timing from the position you've posted him in.

Swingers often have beautiful moves, and the really talented ones can play the game at the highest level. Like everything else in this game, it's the quality of their bad shots that separates them from the day in and day out ballstrikers on tour.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26489

  • Chris Peterich
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Grady

Trying to get shallow like you and Doug.. Damn this is hard , big difference between 70shooters swings and guys like u who break 70 . It is all about that shallow downswing, I'm closer getting there.. That is the magic move of hogan and you, your shallow downswing approaches

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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26490

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phily wrote:
alan wrote:
Guys,made my first video of my swing ever,now like i say i had no warmups,no swing thoughts,hit it clanky,was a 8 iron,walked out into the backyard ,hit one,one time.is what it is.Didnt see much i liked,would love some feedback,criticism welcome.What ive always struggled with is my ball flight would start on line and curve left.or start left ,go left,I think i see some compensation in my my swing to combat this,or it might be compensation for upright lie angle,give me your thought s please,swing posted in my profile......thanks ....alan

Alan, here's the stop motion gif (I asked your permission to make).
I think they are sometimes easier to visually isolate parts of the swing than the videos - fwiw.

thanks i see humping the goat or stalling as these guys would say.im pretty sure i can iron that out,next time i video,im going to warm up.get in my groove see what those swings looks like
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26494

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re: "this illusive path"

not trying to be accurate or technical here, just some casual analogies and swing 'feels'.
I'd like to also opt out of any discussion or questions as to whether this is 'natural' or if Hogan did this or how it relates to some unifying theory etc. it's only offered for what it's worth - someone's free advice & opinion.

one place to start ...
the power and first part of the downswing pretty much resides in the legs & hips.
getting this first part of the downswing figured out is also the first place I would start.
once you understand how the lateral shift into left heel plant works, much of the swing figures itself out (or at least solves a lot of issues, one of which directly relates to the classic definition of coming over the top).

long winded attempt to explain ...
if you can transition weight onto the left heel from a lateral squat while thinking 'keep the handle of the club on my back' until this is done, and then use this heel plant to push your left hip back away from the ball, so that although your hips rotate without restriction, you would sort of think / feel as though all this is done so that your right hip doesn't close it's 'at-the-top-of-the-downswing' distance from the ball through the full hip turn (as a feeling). of course the right hip does get closer in reality but the feeling could possibly be described as turning around the pelvic crease where your upper right thigh and lower right abdomen meet - without this 'crease' invading the existing space or distance (measured perpendicular) it had at the top of the backswing to the ball. this is accomplished by initiating the lateral shift + the left hip sit down squat to then start this left hip movement away from the ball, and really provides the payoff when you, next, push off the left heel to leverage the left hip further back & away from the ball.

visual example ...
most folks on the range believe they do all this (above) already - but what I want to stress is the 'feeling' (at the top of the bs) as if you are leaning over & against a pedestrian handrail to swing - handrail touching at the highest part of the right thigh, and the handrail can't be moved. so if your going to get some power from the hips and clear that handrail you're going to need to figure out how to turn through (above). you should find, with practice, that you now have gobs of power and room to swing from in to out because the right hip is no longer, as Grady put it, 'thrust' out.

(not saying you can't 'time' a goat hump or that Rory doesn't have gobs of power, just saying that if a player is having difficulty with consistency or dispersion or even an unwanted fade, this hip control / swing thought may provide one solution).
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26496

  • Lane Holt
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Golfbulldog,

You say you have played with Rory. Does he know why he hooks it and what causes it ?

Really interested in your response .

Thanks,

Lane
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26497

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Phily, great post. I would only add that it helps in finding that handrail if you minimize arm travel on the BS. I have commented about this as a Hogan secret. If you read Brian's posts carefully he is all over this as well. If you swing the arms way above elbow plane then it is much harder to get them in the proper delivery position before the hips have gotten in the way.
Last Edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Grady Dickens.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26498

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Lane, never said I played with Rory.

If you inferred that I had from my comment "Rory knows it" - then I am sorry ...that was supposition on my part having seen a magazine article describing some exercises he had been doing over the weekend...the comment was that it was to help him control his driver...
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26501

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A
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Brian.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26502

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phily wrote:
re: "this illusive path"

not trying to be accurate or technical here, just some casual analogies and swing 'feels'.
I'd like to also opt out of any discussion or questions as to whether this is 'natural' or if Hogan did this or how it relates to some unifying theory etc. it's only offered for what it's worth - someone's free advice & opinion.

one place to start ...
the power and first part of the downswing pretty much resides in the legs & hips.
getting this first part of the downswing figured out is also the first place I would start.
once you understand how the lateral shift into left heel plant works, much of the swing figures itself out (or at least solves a lot of issues, one of which directly relates to the classic definition of coming over the top).

long winded attempt to explain ...
if you can transition weight onto the left heel from a lateral squat while thinking 'keep the handle of the club on my back' until this is done, and then use this heel plant to push your left hip back away from the ball, so that although your hips rotate without restriction, you would sort of think / feel as though all this is done so that your right hip doesn't close it's 'at-the-top-of-the-downswing' distance from the ball through the full hip turn (as a feeling). of course the right hip does get closer in reality but the feeling could possibly be described as turning around the pelvic crease where your upper right thigh and lower right abdomen meet - without this 'crease' invading the existing space or distance (measured perpendicular) it had at the top of the backswing to the ball. this is accomplished by initiating the lateral shift + the left hip sit down squat to then start this left hip movement away from the ball, and really provides the payoff when you, next, push off the left heel to leverage the left hip further back & away from the ball.

visual example ...
most folks on the range believe they do all this (above) already - but what I want to stress is the 'feeling' (at the top of the bs) as if you are leaning over & against a pedestrian handrail to swing - handrail touching at the highest part of the right thigh, and the handrail can't be moved. so if your going to get some power from the hips and clear that handrail you're going to need to figure out how to turn through (above). you should find, with practice, that you now have gobs of power and room to swing from in to out because the right hip is no longer, as Grady put it, 'thrust' out.

(not saying you can't 'time' a goat hump or that Rory doesn't have gobs of power, just saying that if a player is having difficulty with consistency or dispersion or even an unwanted fade, this hip control / swing thought may provide one solution).

Phily,

Thanks for the great post, especially the part about the left hip moving back, away from the ball. Integral to that process, IMO, is the extension of the left knee as the right remains flexed. While there is some rotation of the left knee that assists with the left hip turn, the primary motivator is the straightening of the left knee ... kind of a "scissoring" move with the flexed right knee moving target wise. This opposite knee flex/extend action also helps with BS and DS tilts.

Flex and extend ... it's what knees do best!

mh
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26503

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moehogan wrote:
phily wrote:
re: "this illusive path"

not trying to be accurate or technical here, just some casual analogies and swing 'feels'.
I'd like to also opt out of any discussion or questions as to whether this is 'natural' or if Hogan did this or how it relates to some unifying theory etc. it's only offered for what it's worth - someone's free advice & opinion.

one place to start ...
the power and first part of the downswing pretty much resides in the legs & hips.
getting this first part of the downswing figured out is also the first place I would start.
once you understand how the lateral shift into left heel plant works, much of the swing figures itself out (or at least solves a lot of issues, one of which directly relates to the classic definition of coming over the top).

long winded attempt to explain ...
if you can transition weight onto the left heel from a lateral squat while thinking 'keep the handle of the club on my back' until this is done, and then use this heel plant to push your left hip back away from the ball, so that although your hips rotate without restriction, you would sort of think / feel as though all this is done so that your right hip doesn't close it's 'at-the-top-of-the-downswing' distance from the ball through the full hip turn (as a feeling). of course the right hip does get closer in reality but the feeling could possibly be described as turning around the pelvic crease where your upper right thigh and lower right abdomen meet - without this 'crease' invading the existing space or distance (measured perpendicular) it had at the top of the backswing to the ball. this is accomplished by initiating the lateral shift + the left hip sit down squat to then start this left hip movement away from the ball, and really provides the payoff when you, next, push off the left heel to leverage the left hip further back & away from the ball.

visual example ...
most folks on the range believe they do all this (above) already - but what I want to stress is the 'feeling' (at the top of the bs) as if you are leaning over & against a pedestrian handrail to swing - handrail touching at the highest part of the right thigh, and the handrail can't be moved. so if your going to get some power from the hips and clear that handrail you're going to need to figure out how to turn through (above). you should find, with practice, that you now have gobs of power and room to swing from in to out because the right hip is no longer, as Grady put it, 'thrust' out.

(not saying you can't 'time' a goat hump or that Rory doesn't have gobs of power, just saying that if a player is having difficulty with consistency or dispersion or even an unwanted fade, this hip control / swing thought may provide one solution).

Phily,

Thanks for the great post, especially the part about the left hip moving back, away from the ball. Integral to that process, IMO, is the extension of the left knee as the right remains flexed. While there is some rotation of the left knee that assists with the left hip turn, the primary motivator is the straightening of the left knee ... kind of a "scissoring" move with the flexed right knee moving target wise. This opposite knee flex/extend action also helps with BS and DS tilts.

Flex and extend ... it's what knees do best!

mh

crush the nut...hopefully you have two
Last Edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Diz.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26509

  • Lane Holt
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Golfbulldog,

Sorry I misinterpreted your message. I am just curious if any of these players have the knowledge and understanding as to why they hook it, especially under pressure ? I read all the talk on this website and nothing is ever mentioned as to ---WHY ?

Thanks,

Lane
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26510

  • Lane Holt
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Alan,

Are you asking for some help with your swing ?


Lane
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26519

  • Lee Comeaux
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Diz wrote:
DTS,

Interesting how we lose this fig 8 as we age...The reason I took lessons from martin was I saw this movement in his motion and I had to know ...very natural movement that can add flow to ur move ..

thanks again...

Diz,

Watch where the clavicle's connect or their center however you see them. THE FIGURE 8 has nada to do with the hips. see his feet moving they are getting thrown around by the pivot point under our throat and the enrire clavicle is doing all that you see underneath. Now in golf because the GRASS dont rotate and slide unlike skaters on ICE. How would we doe that first and second its the WAY the Clavicle turns that MAKES the figure 8. We do not wobble when we do a sporting motion. That leads to Injury and a low skill set. However when we raise our hand and fire we become masters of that trade.

clavicula ("little key") because the bone rotates along its axis like a key when the shoulder is abducted, and it is roughly the same shape as a key for a Roman door lock.

ROTATES ON ITS AXIS LIKE A KEY..................................................Your figure 8 and wave motion is in there not down below.... We lose our figure 8 down below as we get STRONGER and MORE BODY MASS for a reason. Kids who leave the figure 8 sooner than the rest in the body become Phenoms. Then some get it coached back in and the fizzle....Just think about it.

Its not a figure 8 Its a 0 or circle we don't do it on both sides just ONE SIDE. Its a motion of the hands not the club Think TEARDROP very tight one but TEARDROP with a lever or fulcrum. I'm a huge fan of Martins and believe me have watched him a lot . His motion is very good. Its where the TOP of Golf swing and Bottom of Golf Swing meet. Martin is the only other guy I know that has said what I believe and he has shown people where the two are and the EQUATOR line between them.

The world may spin on its axis but its power and momentum come from?????????? EQUATOR.
Without a stable equator you have an AXIS THAT WOBBLES. The Club head travels and for that matter all objects we throw or hit, travel and land based on the path of the equator. That Horizontal bone structure controls you MOTION LIFE.


What is CONNECTED to our EQUATOR DIZ, its real simple.

Be good Diz have a great week.

Lee

Now watch the video again and watch the Clavicle and armpits when they start the FIG 8 starts and when they change direction so does the FIG 8. We unwind from the TOP DOWN not BOTTOM UP. Load the Equator and fire it. They delay to down below is too slow and cannot keep up with how fast a EQUATOR can move. Fact.

ALSO WATCH WHEN HE MIMICS THINGS AND SEE HIS CLAVICLE GO FIRST AND THEN THE HIP AREA AND HE HAS TO STAND UP TO DO THEM. THE ANSWERS ARE THERE HE JUST DID NOT KNOW THEM SO HE COULD TELL YOU HE JUST KNOWS ITS A FIG 8 KINDA THING. IF HE DID HE WOULD HAVE SAID WATCH THIS THIS AND THIS AND SEE MY THROAT THAT'S THE PIVOT POINT OF ALL THIS. CAUSE OF THE WHITE LINE BETWEEN MY FEET IS THE REFERENCE. BUT INSTEAD YOU ARE WATCHING ALL THIS BODY MOTION GOING. OH CRAP NOT AGAIN WHATS GOING ON HERE. WELL AGAIN ITS ALL UNDER THE EARS TOO. BUT I THOUGH ME PUTTING MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS WOULD HELP.
Last Edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Lee Comeaux.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26527

Lee, your last post was the Mona Lisa. Loud and clear and the video was the perfect platform to spring from. Clear, very clear. Thanks for the rush.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 10 months ago #26530

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Lane Holt wrote:
Alan,

Are you asking for some help with your swing ?


Lane
Lane im looking for any comments,critcism,folks may have,im think the direction i want to go with my swing would be along the lines ,method that Grady is working on,im a body swinger,no matter what kind of backswing take,my upper arms are going to hook up to my body on DS ,Thats what my body wants to do.,Im looking for insight on that,how to quit stalling ,humping the goat as folks say,which causes me to flip with my hands,and we all know what happens then.and no im not going to buy lessons from ABS,im currently a 5 handicap,and have been lower when i can play alot,I enjoy figuring out on my own,i dont play that terribly now,dont make my living at it ....thanks for the interest,criticism,advice is welcome from any and all...............alan
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