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[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=152&Itemid=3"]Building and owning your Swing[/url] Group Forum: Since we all had to start somewhere. I would like to start a group, where all can share their humle beginnings and the path that has lead them to where they are now.

From the first shot to the one that got you hooked. From frustration to triumph. From student to teacher, we all have one thing in common, we all love golf. Personally,1lovegolf.

So with humility, grace,and perciverance, we all have traveled the path to understanding our swing with hopes of owning it.

This group and threads will be dedicated to stories about where we were, where we are and where we want to go. There is no ending, only the journey and those we wish to share it with.

TOPIC: In Search of the great Ballstrikers

In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62897

  • Alec Katzman
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H) Bobby Fischer Approach, contempt and disdain toward anyone myopic enough to enter the arena and try to compete. Go about your business in deference to the craft only which no one else could possibly understand.

AKA How to make friends on the golf course
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62898

  • Drew Art
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Grady Dickens wrote:
BTW, what did you think of the swing I posted?

Question with a question- in your pre-swing move, what is the thought or feel you are trying for? I know it was 3/4 swing...
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62899

  • Grady Dickens
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I laid out my intentions in the post of the video.
Last Edit: 11 months 4 weeks ago by Grady Dickens.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62900

  • Drew Art
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The lower body is really looking good.

The upper body is looking good also.

As you keep working it, see if you can find the low point consistently in those 3/4 swings while getting some more "lubricating oil" in the wrist joints without losing any face control.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62902

  • Alec Katzman
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What is Sensei's approach to match play?
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62905

  • Drew Art
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Either approach will work, among others. Vast majority of "winners" will choose approach A, although it has pitfalls.

If one can understand (and by understand I mean TO KNOW) that the IDEA of "your opponent" is a mental story line that only you construct, there isn't a need to construct an opposing story that relies on passion of one's ego to dominate what is essentially a fictional character narrative. At its essence your own story is just illusion also.

You can gain all the confidence in the world that doesn't arise from ego, if you understand then let go of "self". Most have zero idea where to begin knowing that truth, so they write story lines.

You can choose to simply send your ball through the air and along the ground of the course by charting the best course for it through space and sending it there. Nobody else can touch your ball, so it is all up to you to execute in as few strokes as you can muster.

Alternatively, you can accept the implicit idea of a "match", but in that case one can very effectively play strategy games against the location of the other "BALL" . The person who plays that other ball is absolutely irrelevant.

If you have more than a conceptual understanding of this stuff, there are some techniques to build the capability to stay out of the destructive mental patterns long enough to proceed from the first tee shot to the last putt.

But it is best never to speak of these truths to others. You will certainly be deeply misunderstood, because your golf "game" will be very, very different than almost everyone you encounter.

If you go the gladiator route, understand that lives of gladiators, although triumphal and glorious, were filled with pain and short lived.

P.S. Judging the nature of the diatribes and ego games in this thread... It's a long way to Harlan, and a long way to Hazard, Just to get a little booze, just to get a little booze. This nine pound hammer is a little too heavy
For my size, Buddy for my size. Roll on buddy, don't you roll so slow. How can I roll, when the wheels won't roll?

Roll on Buddy!
Last Edit: 11 months 4 weeks ago by Drew Art.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62906

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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62907

  • Drew Art
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Vinny, Zach Johnson was a little creepy in that one.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62908

  • Steve H
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Notice on Alec's neutral vid he has a nice big S shape in his posture. Awesome. He's puring it, blowing through it effortlessly.

On the 2nd day blues vid, back is flat. He's stabbing at it, chest humping.

Why the change?
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62910

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I focus entirely on my opponent in match play and ignore individual score. A point is a point. If I have a six footer for birdie but only need a par to win the hole, you better believe my putt is going to finish inches from the hole, or fall in if I hit it perfect. Put the ball in the fairway, then on the green, and repeat. This typically wears my opponent down. If I'm off that day, I turn to the Bud Light fairy and hope for the best.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62913

  • Grady Dickens
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Drew and others what is your comment to Brad's new video? Watch from 1:00 to 2:45 or so:

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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62915

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Brads video is the abs perspective. Personally I think it's dangerous to say things like this is the only way.
I see other underlying concepts being truly fundamental to a successfully executed swing.
Also what a shame to try to freeze your right arm and just use forearm rotation and pivot.
To me I like active right arm thrust not trying to cut it off and spin.
It's an Abs commercial so view it as what it is.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62916

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Yes, he believes in what he is doing. Shouldn't a teacher believe in what he is teaching? I wanted to get a discussion going on it, particularly with Drew who has been through Brad's program (or some of it) and has his own Hogan ideas. Christ, lately all you do Boogie Man is tear others down. Disagreement and discussion is good. Tearing down for the fun of it is tiresome. What is your point?
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62917

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With respect, I'm not going to comment on Brad's teaching videos.

I like Brad a lot. He's a smart guy, works very hard and shares very freely. Just don't think it's my place to comment here. If I had questions I would ask him
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62918

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I dunno Grady. I guess not being in a program I look towards you in yours and I see you actively seeking ideas and implementing diff intents. If there's one and only one way how could that happen?
I would like to get better discussion going.
The thing is everybody wants to go on a plane that's super flat. I am not sure that's a magic bullet.
I am most interested in fundamentals really.
I have not been convinced yet I should seek elbow plane as a panacea. That said I am not happy with my own swing right now either. To me my swing sucks so at least my negativity is universal.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62921

  • Grady Dickens
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Well I will ask the questions I have and see where it goes. Focus on the piece from 1:15 to 1:45 or so. Did the greats sequence the release with the forearms, and then the pivot as Brad demonstrates in the first part of those 30 seconds, or did the greats just rotate and hold the arms and hands as he demonstrates? And how does this fit into the discussion:

s97.photobucket.com/user/drewspin/media/....gif.html?sort=3&o=4

One thing I can add is that I know to be true is you can't activate the big outside muscles in the right buttocks and thigh in transition. I mean you can...Jamie does it...but this is not long driving. Rather you need to keep the right lower half back until you can get the right elbow planted where it needs to be. I think this is one of Hogan's secrets...moving the right hip away from the ball in transition. Sure it moved the COG forward, but it also moved the right side out of the way so he could slot it more easily and then engage those muscles aggressively. By sending his right lower half back he didn't deweight it, he just angled it so he could use it most effectively.
Last Edit: 11 months 4 weeks ago by Grady Dickens.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62922

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Drew: "your opponent" is a mental story line that only you construct, there isn't a need to construct an opposing story that relies on passion of one's ego to dominate what is essentially a fictional character narrative. At its essence your own story is just illusion also.

You can gain all the confidence in the world that doesn't arise from ego, if you understand then let go of "self". Most have zero idea where to begin knowing that truth, so they write story lines.

You can choose to simply send your ball through the air and along the ground of the course by charting the best course for it through space and sending it there. Nobody else can touch your ball, so it is all up to you to execute in as few strokes as you can muster.

Alternatively, you can accept the implicit idea of a "match", but in that case one can very effectively play strategy games against the location of the other "BALL" . The person who plays that other ball is absolutely irrelevant"
matrix.jpg


kungfu.jpg
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62923

  • Bradley Hughes
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I will be sure to let the two guys I fixed to not only better golf but their pain issues - one with chronic tennis elbow & the other severe back pain-both who were right arm thrusters that it is my bad
There is a huge difference between releasing the right arm as I teach and thrusting it
Last Edit: 11 months 4 weeks ago by Bradley Hughes.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62925

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Good new video from B. Hughes, thanks for posting Grady.

Interesting question you present. I think the greats did both- a sequenced forearm action and a gathering body interaction- which is just creating room for the 'something' that is behind and upward from where it started- el club-o. I don't believe it would be accurate to state the forearms and body operate separately in a vacuum.

As long as what Martin and Bradley generally describe as containing, or not having the club leaking out toward the target line, is a responsive attribute within an intention then we are good to go.

Here is a capture of Bradley's video, great action to say the least, but to the average viewer it may look like the club is leaking outward toward the line. All I see in Bradley's video is once set at the top, he turns 'inside his hands' even in this capture.

I call it.....stealin' hides......or steal 'n hide. If I steal energy from a monster why on earth would I ever want to send it back too soon as it is mine to use against it.
hughes.jpg



Hey Grady.....where are your foot pressures at address....both feet obviously :laugh:
Last Edit: 11 months 4 weeks ago by Festus.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62926

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lawyersmatchplay.png



GD: "I always preferred match play, and did well at it. You have to be aware of your opponent and play accordingly. You can have a general strategy, but you must be able to react as each hole develops." At 300/hr, minimum 3 hrs, that will be $900.00 please.
Last Edit: 11 months 4 weeks ago by wheatshock.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62927

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svsV.jpg


virtualanger.jpg
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62928

  • Grady Dickens
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Festus,

On foot pressures I do like the Jackie Burke/ Martin idea of a runner's stance. For me, as I try and become a slave to the 4;30 line, I try and do everything to enhance that image of where I want to go. So I have my pressure in the right foot on the inside, favoring my heel and I twist my hips slightly to face that 4;30 line. This sets my right hip a bit back in feel but aiming down the 4:30 line. With the left foot, I have it angled out pointing in the general direction of the line with my left knee braced in. I have a fault I have been recently dealing with of not moving my left knee much. Because I am a tall, flexible guy I can get a full turn without getting much left knee movement at all. All of the greats, however, got their left knee behind the ball, and I suspect many were as flexible as me. And the weight on the left is more balanced in the foot, as opposed to favoring the heel.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62937

  • Grady Dickens
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One of the cool things about the ABS website are the player pics that Brad routinely posts. This is a Hogan pic I had not seen before:

HoganRearView.jpg
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62939

  • Alec Katzman
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Steve H wrote:
Notice on Alec's neutral vid he has a nice big S shape in his posture. Awesome. He's puring it, blowing through it effortlessly.

On the 2nd day blues vid, back is flat. He's stabbing at it, chest humping.

Why the change?
This is the process, that video from the second day is awful and that's the point. If you're going to change something you have to commit to the change and allow everything to fall apart. But if you do that it's going to be preferable to know how to put it back together as well.

At this point I'm going to say that what Drew noticed quite correctly was that I was ballbound and it was inhibiting my turn. His suggestion to get my eye off the ball immediately was spot on, it's like he gave me the key to a door that's been locked right in front of me. I don't have to actually look at the ball all the time and it's better if I change the focus from the ball altogether to things that are more important like awareness of the target and launch angle; it's a spacial change, totally different focus and letting go of mechanics which is always the right answer, fuzz it out man.

In order to make something like this as fine as possible you have to let it get ugly and sloppy and clean it up after, mistakes are the only way we learn.
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In Search of the great Ballstrikers 11 months 4 weeks ago #62942

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Thanks Grady. Absolutely beautiful weather today, and along with great music a fun ride today hitting steel, graphite, and hickory all in one day- pushing some edges of a few things....even had a shank out of nowhere. :laugh:

I have this idea about feet pressures that I have been playing around with and having good success with a pure swing passivity. You mention starting with inside weight on the R foot. Today I went outside R along the entire sole line, and L heel solely at address. I wonder if weight seeks to fill vacant areas much like water seeks a pure level. So if weight is on the outside R to begin with, that area is all used up to really accept any more so the weight bypasses it and goes around it TO THE RIGHT HEEL. While this happens the weight from the L heel transverses up to the L toes. Remember that Hogan video where the L foot slides diagonally forward. One can't go forward from being forward I guess is my point and oddly enough, the R foot is now loaded to torque CW during transition while the weight on the L foot now seeks to go back the heel again. Maybe weight has to seek the path of least resistance on its way to wherever it needs to land.

Got some stuff to work on.....be back in a few.
Last Edit: 11 months 4 weeks ago by Festus.
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