Secret In The Dirt - Golf's Greatest Social Network

Doug Burke wrote:


Rock, a very fair point and I think very easy to be executed. Namely, fairways should become proportionally wider starting from 250 yards of the amount needed to compensate length of the drive (or whatever more). 2.5 yards wider fairway is no big deal anywhere. Making rough calculations for each distance of golf course -- the same.

Cheers

Doug Burke wrote:


Make sense...thanks Doug!

Walked my first 18 of the year today and was pretty disappointed to shoot a 106.

I was lost off the tee. Had no clue up there. I didn't feel good or put a good swing on my tee shot (ANY tee shot) for the first 9 holes. My frustration carried over to the fairway where I struggled to make good contact as well.

I thought I figured this golf stuff out already.

I finally found my swing the last 6 holes or so. Then my aim was bad off the tee and my scores were still not great.

I couldn't keep my hands peaceful. I was scared and confused and I just topped the crap out of the ball.

I think I learned my lesson today. The old game of golf bent me over its knee and spanked me pretty hard. I told my buddy I'm never going to be over 100 the rest of the summer. No excuse for it.

My plan is to keep working on understanding the rotational swing and dig deeper into Martin's Move for power and consistency. I need to keep working to build my weapon. Aiming it is just a matter of understanding and that will come with time. My swing today was unwieldy and that's what worries me the most. I have more work to do.

Grades Today

Driving = Incomplete
Woods = C-
Long Irons = C
Short Irons = B-
Short game = B+
Putting = B

Dariusz,
Working on from the Core out again this week. I am really feeling my right elbow stabilizing in the downswing. I had some serious effortless power tonight...this swing was my normal golf course swing with no effort to hit it extra hard. I have had such a flying elbow...from following Jack Nicklaus and I was a pitcher as a kid...that it has been a long road to make any progress toward getting it to my right side but I am convinced this is a good idea that you have. Did not feel the need to swing my right elbow out wide to get more power and am feeling comfortable that this extra feature is not needed so my swing is simplifying. I am feeling the whole ROM of my right wrist is being used coming down now and it looks very simple on a frame-by-frame. The hand swaparoo (relaxing the left hand in transition so the right hand can take over as being dominant through impact) is still absolute gold. You can see my humerus being very stable with my thorax through impact...video is not super high quality because it was dusk out. Looking forward to continuing to take this very slow so it becomes natural and then I will own it.
Thanks,
Rock

Kenan,
It sounds like you had a meltdown. My definition of a meltdown is you get stuck on a bad thought, feel, or combination of the two. You have to have the love. No love, no great golf. I guarantee it. Was there anything that you could do or was it all stuff you couldn't do? Did you make any adjustments when you were hitting your tee shots poorly...take deep breaths from the abdomen, look around at all of the beautiful scenery and how fortunate you were to be playing the game you love while the rest of us were at work, at funerals, at the unemployment line, having open heart surgery, fighting a war in far off places, hunting in the woods for some food to take to our family, in a drug induced stuper, stealing from a bank, wondering where your next drop of water was coming from, take a few easy practice swings and get in a better frame of mind, believe that your swing was going to produce a good result, swing, and then think about all of the great things you did. You need to find the beauty in what you are doing. I know you have high expectations and were expecting a mid-80 round, but the first step toward that is playing with love in your heart. Find the beauty instead of what is wrong. Gold didn't beat you today. You beat yourself up. I guarantee it.
Thanks,
Rock
kenan wrote:

Rock,

The thing that tripped me out was that my swings felt fine. I felt like I was doing the right stuff but my contact was not good. I hit some shots today that were so bad that I couldn't believe it. I hit driver and got TOPSPIN. How do you do that?

I was grabbing the club and flexing my arms and trying to hit it with my arms and shoulders. I was getting quick and I had too many thoughts in my head.

I don't want to dwell on what happened or think about it for too long. I want to move on. Gotta get to a course tomorrow and get it right.

kenan wrote:


Kenan, I feel for you buddy. The key here is the 'too many thoughts in your head'. You have to be a special kinda person to play good golf like that. At most have ONE key swing thought during play and try to make it a rhythm based thought. It's okay to rehearse some move in your practice swing, but the real deal has to be about the target.

You got caught up playing golf swing.

At 2:32, I hit a world class top. Listen to how I practice in this sequence. I am working to hit ugly and beautiful shots which proves to my self and hopefully you that it in the instructions that I give my self at the center of my brain is what produces the shot. I am using the same swing. I decide the result that I want. I tie my swing to that result. I swing and take note of the result with no emotion. You need to play this way on the range, on the course, on the baseball field, whereever on the planet you are, no matter who is watching you, or what they are saying. It is fine to have a lot of thoughts in your head. You have to know how to focus those thoughts in a productive way to get your best stuff out...you are the only one who can do that. You have to think about what is the appropriate shot...look at all the options and think through what you can do at that moment...and pick a shot. Change channels, you have made your decision. Tie your swing to that shot with an easy practice swing(s) until it feels right. It is fine to have some swing thoughts about what you are working on as long as those thought are correlated with the shot that you want. You made a decision. Change Channels. Step in with that vision and hit it. Every movement that you make in the preshot should be geared toward the shot that you want to hit. There is a focus there that must be present. You will naturally pull the trigger in a flow when you are convinced that this moment will be yours. Let your energy flow beautifully and observe the result with no emotions and find the beauty in what you did. Relax and go to the next shot. Repeat. There is a flow that you must get into to play great golf. After a while, you will get in a zone of focus, concentration, determination, and love. On some days, the flow is there on the opening tee shot, sometime it takes 6 holes, 17 holes, and somedays you never get it. You will get comfortable in what you are doing eventually. You will have the love and passion. Your best stuff will come out. You will believe in your self and your swing. You will do this today and shoot in the 80s.

Rock Man commands you to shoot in the 80s today and get in the flow. Do you like my old man haircut.
Thanks,
Rock Man
kenan wrote:

kenan wrote:


Ernest Jones "Swing The Clubhead" will put you and your game on the right track.

Kenan,
This is what was playing during my 3 mile run this morning. This is what I believe, my friend. You need a little luck and a lot of love.
Thanks,
Rock Man

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and support.

Yesterday was important for me because it helped me understand the following important lessons:

1. Just because I "know" something doesn't mean I understand it. If I understood what to do yesterday I would have been able to adjust and do better. I'm making a large adjustment in my game. I'm moving away from "releasing" and "dumping" the energy into the ball towards a rotational, "post impact" release. The emotional part of my brain obviously doesn't understand that concept yet because it was freaking out when it shouldn't have yesterday.

2. I can't play "golf swing." Dean nailed me on that. I was thinking mechanics while keeping score which is a huge trap. The problem is that I didn't solidify my mechanics in practice. I modified my setup on Wed. and didn't test it on my graphite shafted clubs so I had a tough time feeling what I was doing.

3. I have to recognize and adjust when I feel nerves. I wanted to do well to prove to my buddy that I had gotten better. Hell, I wanted to beat my buddy but he had a great day and shot 80. I recognized and adjusted when I was playing at the part 3 course last weekend. I smoothed out my tempo to where I felt like I was swinging "slow" and my contact was fine. (I know I'm not supposed to think about swinging "slow" but what else do you call it when you want to avoid getting quick and tripping the shaft by freaking out and grabbing the thing?)

Really can't wait to get back out there and figure it out.

On a much more positive note, I put a whole bunch of lead tape on my irons. Talk about fun. I hit some shots yesterday that were like "WHAM!" Never had that sound before.

Lead tape is delicious also. I have some for breakfast it make brain feelfuny me nof eel good byee

Doug Burke wrote:


Rock, a gift for you (unfortunately couldn't synch it better but watch the shaft, the elbow and the legs searching ground forces); do not exaggerate with your height though because you'll end too compact




As usually, your gift to emulate theory is simply marvellous.

Cheers

[

Really can't wait to get back out there and figure it out.[/quote]quote="kenan" post=29787]Thanks everyone for the encouragement and support.

Yesterday was important for me because it helped me understand the following important lessons:

1. Just because I "know" something doesn't mean I understand it. If I understood what to do yesterday I would have been able to adjust and do better. I'm making a large adjustment in my game. I'm moving away from "releasing" and "dumping" the energy into the ball towards a rotational, "post impact" release. The emotional part of my brain obviously doesn't understand that concept yet because it was freaking out when it shouldn't have yesterday.

Rock Man Response: You can know and understand it, but you need to do it. When you can do it 10 times in a row then maybe you know and understand it. Hitting one good shot and then thinking you own it is a trap many people get into. When you string 10 shots together on the range and on the course, then you own it. For me, I have to string, 36 good shots in a row to shoot mid 60s. It is with different clubs. You have touch putts, pitch and chip shots followed by powerful Drives and mid irons. You need to practice like this so you really know what it is to own a concept. You have to really focus on how you are practicing and playing and make it the same.

2. I can't play "golf swing." Dean nailed me on that. I was thinking mechanics while keeping score which is a huge trap. The problem is that I didn't solidify my mechanics in practice. I modified my setup on Wed. and didn't test it on my graphite shafted clubs so I had a tough time feeling what I was doing.

Rock Man Response: Yes, see response to 1. You didn't solidify it in practice so how are you going to be solid on the course. How are you going to do that? Exactly.

3. I have to recognize and adjust when I feel nerves. I wanted to do well to prove to my buddy that I had gotten better. Hell, I wanted to beat my buddy but he had a great day and shot 80. I recognized and adjusted when I was playing at the part 3 course last weekend. I smoothed out my tempo to where I felt like I was swinging "slow" and my contact was fine. (I know I'm not supposed to think about swinging "slow" but what else do you call it when you want to avoid getting quick and tripping the shaft by freaking out and grabbing the thing?)

Rock Man Response: You have to do your thing and not worry about what your buddy is doing. This is something I struggled with for a long time.

I'll give you an on course example: Par 5 and seven guys and Kenan are 260 yards out. Guy one LongOne hits a 4 iron with a high fade that bites quick and stops 20 feet from the flag, Guy two Rockman hit a driver off the deck with a slight draw and rolls up to 20 feet from the hole, Guy three Shankappotamus hits a 4 iron and shanks it in the road OB and swears 10 cuss words, Guy four ConservativeOne lays up with a 7 iron to 100 yards, Guy five OpenHeartSurgeryTwoHipsReplaced hits a 4 iron thin to 100 yards, Guy 6 LaytheSod chunks a 4 iron to 100 yards, Guy 7 DuckHooksky hooks a 3 wood in the pond left of the green, Guy 8 Kenan gets up to hit his shot. What does Kenan do? He thinks well LongOne is the shot I want but I only hit my four iron 190 yards so I am a worthless piece of crap. RockMan his a Driver off the deck and I cannot do that so I am a worthless piece of grap. Shankappotamus shanked on OB and I have done that so I sure hope my swing doesn't do that. Conservative one layed up which was really smart and I should do that, but I am not that smart so I am a dummy. OpenHeartSurgeryTwoHipsReplaced is terrible, but I got to hit it better than him. LaytheSod hit it fat and I sure hope I don't do that. DuckHooksky hit the same shot I hit on the range and I don't want that. I'll take the 4 iron and swing out of my shoes to see if I can hit it on the green next to LongOne that is what Kenan will do. Kenan needs to be Kenan. Kenan can't be the other 7 guys. Kenan can only be as good as Kenan is.

Thanks,
Rock Man

Dariusz,
Awesome. Yes, you described exactly what I am feeling with this move...club, right elbow, right leg searching ground forces. I like that. You noticed what I am dialing in without me telling you...one smart dude you are. I have a few more inches to go to dial in Hogan. Have been thinking with my height and body structure how much lower I want to get that right elbow. As you said, it does appear that I will get too compact if I continue inching it in. You can see my lower body and thorax has it nailed. It might be time to let this sync up for the rest of my life. I was very satisfied with these swings, but I am sure I'll keep after it...keep getting energized as I continue the push my power package down so I believe there is more to learn.
Thanks,
Rock
Dariusz Jedrzejewski wrote:

Doug Burke wrote:


Rock, the whole beauty of macroscale concepts is that people can take what their swing needs, nothing more. If one can see the big picture not trying to copy everything blindly (and in case of Hogan to admit it is impossible to copy him for whatever reasons one can think of) but knowing the impact of correct biokinetics -- he will simply be a better golfer...starting from Tiger Woods ending on a 36HCP old guy starting his golf adventure being 60 years old.

Keep ROCKING, mate.

Cheers

After 19 months of working on my swing, someone finally came to practice with me today. Tony G drove a couple hours and we practiced together for 6 hours. Tony has been studying Dariusz's BGST so I was excited to learn what he was working on. It was a lot of fun. We worked on his Driver, irons, wedges, chips, pitches, and flop shots. Tony G is a 90-95 shooter so it was fun day learning with him. I told him he is going to show me how to play in a couple of years. At the end, he was hitting my blades and getting a great click so that was exciting to hear. Tony G is a gentleman because I snapped the shaft on his 50 gram Driver and he declined to take my Driver as a replacement or my offer to buy him a new one. You can see the Head of his Driver balanced on the butt of his shaft as one of the 7 wonders of the world of how that stayed balanced in the wind for a few hours.

Dariusz,
Look at Tony's move on that last swing...not bad for a 90 shooter...huh. Your BGST is Gold.
Thanks,
Rock

Rock
You are a hard worker.
If I may make one recommendation about your ground forces. If we look at the pic Dariusz posted of you and Hogan together ....you look more weight orientated to the left while he is more weight orientated down his right leg.



I find that having the feeling of pressuring down the right leg at transition allows the club to have a larger avenue of attack from behind the body and finding the 'slot' is much much easier
The major thing I believe happens from this pressuring down the right side is that instinctively our left knee and left side counter balances and moves left....a la the Snead squat.



The longer we can feel the weight down the right leg the more aggressive we can then work left into and through the strike. If we get too left too early then we have no range of motion in that side to keep moving towards, so the tendency would be to then cease and stand up and move the clubhead out along the target line too soon and raise the hands and do that 'goat hump' that people talk about.
Just my honest opinion about what I see as I know you have been working diligently on trying to remove some of that from your motion.

Looks to me like a lot of pressure going down the right side from old Hogan here as far as ground forces... the left knee is counter balancing forward...knees, hips are closed off...shoulders are very closed off... all contributing to building range of motion for the body to work towards as the swing progresses... the more the body works in this manner the less prone we are to throwing the hands away from the body and disconnecting as the body is still trying to outwork the tendency to release the hands

Don't fret optimal forum land. Im gonna be ok. Today I started learning to enjoy the process of feeling the rhythm of my swing. It was a fun time. Power is not an issue for me anymore. Neither is contact. Now I'm aiming this stuff.

Bradley,
Yes, you make good points so I appreciate the help. I have a lot of down force on my right leg...this is what the counterwound concept I posted is all about. What I am working on is getting my right heel to NOT rotate CW in transition. Hogan had no rotation of that right foot in transition and I am still not exactly sure how he managed to do that. As I allow my hands to drop more and more in transition, I am getting my CW foot rotation to happen later and later, but I have not ever seen it go away. I can see in these images that I am getting left wrist Palmar flexion much earlier than he does...Hogan trips the shaft later...and that might be how he kept that right knee moving laterally in transition with no rotation in his foot...or was it the steel spikes...until I can do it at max speed, I do not know. My hands are very contained...can hit a compressed draw with my driver off a road and that would not be possible if I didn't have my hands contained. I will keep working to make progress and get over this hump. You can guarantee that. Again, I appreciate the help...and any advice you have on why my right foot rotates CW in transition and what to do to fix it.
Thanks,
Rock
Bradley Hughes wrote:

I had a teaching light bulb moment this weekend that I wanted to share. On Saturday, I spent 6 hours working with Tony. We worked on his swing and discussed what I thought he needed to do. He was hitting it well and then I noticed his preshot routine where he kept holding a deep lag and then stopping. I asked why are you doing that? Hogan and Mo did that. He would hit it bad and then finally I said do not do that. I want your left arm to fold and right arm extend into the follow through and I want you to accelerate. He started hitting it well.

A buddy called up to play on Sunday. I have worked with him off and on for a few years and he has a goal to break 80…plays a couple times per month in the summer and doesn’t practice much as he is busy with work and his family. Yesterday was his first round this year. We go out on the first tee discussing a free flowing swing. He hit a nice drive and plays the front 9 in 40 so he is on track for his first round to break 80 in his life. On 10, he misses it right about 15 yards and he makes a par so he is off to a good start. He blows it right on 11 into the trees and makes double. He doubles 12 and 13 so now he is toast on breaking 80 for the most part…a classic meltdown. On 14 tee, I decide to take a timeout and discuss with him what had happened. I noticed he had started doing the same deep lag and stop preshot routine that Tony had done. I asked why. He said because I was hitting it so far and I wanted to hit it further so I need this deep lag. I said No what that did for you is get you stuck and make you hit it right…I also didn’t notice that you hit further…so basically you started hitting it short and crooked. Why don’t you return to letting the left arm fold and right arm extend into the follow through. He smoked a Drive right down the middle on 14 and made Par on the next 4 holes which was a very difficult stretch…much harder than the 3 holes he doubled. On 18, the foursome behind us came to the tee as the course had backed up. He proceeded to hit it in the right trees. I asked him if the group watching had an effect on what happened. He said Yes he was thinking about them instead of his shot.

I get home on Sunday and do a Skype session with a buddy and I am showing him what I see with his swing. I see the same stall and dump in his swing that I saw with Tony and my other buddy. He swings and we discuss the right arm extension and left arm fold into the follow through and he is doing it nicely. I then I see him doing that same deep lag and stop preshot after I told him how to correct what he was doing. I ask him what he is doing…Hogan and Mo did that so I am doing it. Will let me tell you what I think of that preshot routine…it sucks.

What did I learn? Pay attention to what someone is doing before they hit the shot. Pay attention to what they do after you tell them what they need to do. This will tell you what is actually going on and could explain the result. My buddy who ended up shooting 83 would have likely broke 80 if I would have said something sooner...had decided that he was on a good roll and see if he would work him self out of it. Tony would have been hitting it better sooner. My Skype buddy does not have the intimate knowledge that I was able to impart face-to-face so it might not stick with him, but I was able to impart the knowledge and it is up to him what he does with it as well as Tony and my local buddy. I also learned a lot about how people actually learn the swing. They see images of Hogan and Mo doing this deep lag and stop position in the downswing. I have seen countless videos of Chris doing that drill and this thread is littered with that drill. You hear swing the clubhead, get the weight swinging in the takeaway and follow it, counterbalance the body with the swinging weight, one swing, …all thoughts to keep moving and NOT stop. What do golfers remember, do and believe…that they have to hold a deep lag in the downswing? Does that give them the power that they want? No. Does that give them the precision that they want? No. Tony and my buddy were amazed that being patient in transition and accelerating through the ball with soft hands created much longer shots with much less effort. I am wondering if others who are reading this thread will benefit in the same way with these thoughts instead of trying to achieve a position at one moment in time. To learn that the preshot routine and what you do is very important in how you will swing the club. Is it only a lesson to be learned by these three golfers or could be important to others. I decided to share this in the hope that it would help other dirters.

Thanks,
Rock

Great post; I've been teaching golf for 40 yrs. I couldn"t agree more. The club must swing and release. You must smoothly follow thru until you are thru ! The left arms must fold. 90 % of golfers hit it right. No release. To break 80 you must release. Please keep up the great posts.

Dennis,
Awesome. This means a lot to me. This is a huge lesson for students and teachers. I am an amateur who has been a scratch golfer since I was 15...33 years. My hats off to you for teaching professionally for 40 years...in my limited exposure teaching I know how challenging...majority of people do not listen, learn, and put out an effort to really own it...and rewarding it is...when you get a student who actually follows what you teach, works hard, and learns how to own it them self...so I appreciate your efforts to help others. When I was in high school, I started "teaching or coaching" primarily because other guys on my team wanted to know how I scored so well. My biggest challenge at that time was to take a friend who played other sports and get him to break 90 so our team could advance past districts...he shot 89 at districts and our team advanced to regionals, but he shot 125 in regionals and our team did not advance to states...this is one of many times I have seen how pressure will effect the scores you shoot. I asked him what happened and he said he had a bad hole on the first, kept playing bad, and couldn't turn it around.

What happened to my buddy in high school, I have seen happen countless times in tournaments and in regular play not only by others, but my self. It happened to me in my last A-team match where I didn't get my best stuff to come out and shot 76. The score was not what bothered me it was that I was not able to turn it around and play my best golf at any time during that 4 hour round. Fast forward to this weekend and I learned to actually diagnose the root cause why two guys were struggling and it had nothing to do with their actual swing. It had to do with what they were doing before their swing and their knowledge of what a swing is as I described. To get them to understand how to move forward from their intention to twirling the club at the end of their shot as they watch the ball come to its final resting spot. I have always known how important the overall process is, but I had put the majority of my emphasis on the 1.4 seconds of the swing. For whatever reason, I have always taught what happens from the top of the backswing to the follow through...stick the finish...is the one piece of advice all of my buddies have heard from me as every great shot I have seen someone hit has been when they stick the finish...balance, tempo, and rhythm are so important. I have not focused my teaching on the backswing...probably I learned as a kid that I saw hundreds of different backswings that produced great shots...tour players of that day had vastly different backswings so it was easy to believe that. Now most of the teaching is to have a technically "perfect looking" swing with most of the emphasis being on the backswing and scant attention to what happens past impact.

As you said, Dennis, THE CLUB MUST SWING AND RELEASE! THE CLUB MUST SWING AND RELEASE! THE CLUB MUST SWING AND RELEASE! YOU MUST SMOOTHLY FOLLOW THRU UNTIL YOU ARE THRU! YOU MUST SMOOTHLY FOLLOW THRU UNTIL YOU ARE THRU! YOU MUST SMOOTHLY FOLLOW THRU UNTIL YOU ARE THRU! THE LEFT ARM MUST FOLD! THE LEFT ARM MUST FOLD! THE LEFT ARM MUST FOLD! Yes, Dennis, I concur with your teaching in this post. I learned what you already knew and how to teach it. My hope is I will see other Pros teaching intention, preshot, swing, and watch the result. To go out on the course with their students and coach them through playing the game instead of staying on the lesson teach analyzing their swing and telling them what is wrong. The majority of golfers would play much better with these on type of lessons and enjoy the game much more. However, it is not all on the teachers. It is on the students. The students must want to get these type of lessons and not strive for a perfect looking swing...before I can play well. No, you can play very well with a non-ideal looking swing...ask Miller Barber, Hubert Green, Nancy Lopez, and many others who were great players and how many people have studied how they did it...they had great swings and great "ME MANAGEMENT". They performed great at the highest stage and most people ignored their swing and how they did it. Everyone wants the perfect Ben Hogan or Sam Snead or... swing...my self included...and thinks that will produce great golf...WRONG...I know that is not true. Playing Great Golf is much more than a great swing it is about ME MANAGEMENT...it is all about you.

Thanks,
Rock
The left arms must fold.Dennis Yohe wrote:

This is the first swing I have captured recently where my right heel lifts straight off the ground during the downswing instead of rotating CW before lifting. I believe this is what I want to have in my swing, but I am not sure if it is and what I did to get it. In studying it, it looks like I got my right butt to sit back more than normal in transition. I was working on improving the downforce in my right leg as Bradley had suggested to me by getting more of an inward and downward squeeze in transition from the outside of my right leg. Normally, I can draw a vertical line on my butt at address and I stay there during the backswing and in transition. On this swing, I got it to go across the line. I was wondering if that is the reason why my right foot lifted straight up vertically during the downswing. The shot was OK, nothing great and it looks clunky, but I did realized it felt different so I stopped the camera to look at it later. As I have in the past, I have decided to post the first time I saw something change...doesn't look pretty...time will tell if it improves my results which is one thing my journey is about.
Thanks,
Rock

Id like to make a stab at Rock if you dont mind,disregard if it not helpful,what i see,is you intiating DS,transition with lowerbody,previous swings looked like gravity falls,might not be what you are feeling,but in this swing looks like your lower body gives you the free ride instead of gravity